Social Issues in Management SIM

 View Only
  • 1.  David Brooks: If it feels right (NY Times)

    Posted 09-14-2011 00:41

    Hello,

     

    Here is a link to an interesting article by David Brooks on the lack of ability of college-aged people to think and talk about moral issues. This aligns fairly well to my personal experience. I would be curious if previous generations of students had better skills in this regard.

    If It Feels Right
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/if-it-feels-right.html?_r=1

    Cheers,

     

    Ron

     

    Ronald M Roman, PhD

    San Jose State University

     

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org _______________________________________________________________________

    If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery options, you can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1 _______________________________________________________________________



  • 2.  David Brooks: If it feels right (NY Times)

    Posted 09-14-2011 01:03
    I found this interesting myself Ron.

    Here is some critical backstory, though in fairness, the book and
    column do not advocate individualism:

    http://kmgarcia2000.blogspot.com/2011/09/saving-adolescent-degenerates.html


    Julian Friedland, Ph.D.
    Fordham University
    Graduate School of Business

    On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Ron Roman
    <ronroman@ethicalbusiness.org> wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    >
    >
    > Here is a link to an interesting article by David Brooks on the lack of
    > ability of college-aged people to think and talk about moral issues. This
    > aligns fairly well to my personal experience. I would be curious if previous
    > generations of students had better skills in this regard.
    >
    > If It Feels Right
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/if-it-feels-right.html?_r=1
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    >
    >
    > Ron
    >
    >
    >
    > Ronald M Roman, PhD
    >
    > San Jose State University
    >
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery options,
    > you can do so online at:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    > _______________________________________________________________________

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    _______________________________________________________________________

    If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    options, you can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1


  • 3.  David Brooks: If it feels right (NY Times)

    Posted 09-14-2011 07:36
    I may be missing it or perhaps I am simply naive, and I will grant you that
    I have not read the actual study or the upcoming book and that I do not know
    Professor Christian Smith or to whom the Lilly Foundation provides grants,
    but I just re-read the Brooks column and I do not see it as an endorsement
    for charter schools as Karen Garcia describes in the blog you reference.
    More importantly, I do believe the Brooks column accurately describes the
    ability (or lack of ability) of an unacceptable percentage of young adults
    to adequately think about and discuss moral issues. I suspect, however, that
    this ability has not changed much over time. That is what I am most curious
    about: Has the ability to morally reason changed versus 10 or 20 or 30 years
    ago? If it has changed I would wonder if the connectedness of our digital
    world has enabled these young adults to interact with so many people that
    they connect with none of them and if they are exposed to -- and perhaps
    overwhelmed by -- so many viewpoints that they accept them all as equally
    valid.

    Ron



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Social Issues in Management Listserv [mailto:SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Julian Friedland
    Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 10:03 PM
    To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [SIM] David Brooks: If it feels right (NY Times)

    I found this interesting myself Ron.

    Here is some critical backstory, though in fairness, the book and
    column do not advocate individualism:

    http://kmgarcia2000.blogspot.com/2011/09/saving-adolescent-degenerates.html


    Julian Friedland, Ph.D.
    Fordham University
    Graduate School of Business

    On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Ron Roman
    <ronroman@ethicalbusiness.org> wrote:
    > Hello,
    >
    >
    >
    > Here is a link to an interesting article by David Brooks on the lack of
    > ability of college-aged people to think and talk about moral issues. This
    > aligns fairly well to my personal experience. I would be curious if
    previous
    > generations of students had better skills in this regard.
    >
    > If It Feels Right
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/if-it-feels-right.html?_r=1
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    >
    >
    > Ron
    >
    >
    >
    > Ronald M Roman, PhD
    >
    > San Jose State University
    >
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery options,
    > you can do so online at:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    > _______________________________________________________________________

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    _______________________________________________________________________

    If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    options, you can do so online at:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    _______________________________________________________________________

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    _______________________________________________________________________

    If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    options, you can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1


  • 4.  David Brooks: If it feels right (NY Times)

    Posted 09-14-2011 09:53
    I agree.

    I think she doesn't know Brooks' work well enough and so is setting up
    a straw man argument against him in several ways.

    That said, I found it interesting to learn about the background of the
    funding of the study and how others could conceivably use its results
    for more narrow purposes.

    Julian

    On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Ron Roman <ronroman@ethicalbusiness.org> wrote:
    > I may be missing it or perhaps I am simply naive, and I will grant you that
    > I have not read the actual study or the upcoming book and that I do not know
    > Professor Christian Smith or to whom the Lilly Foundation provides grants,
    > but I just re-read the Brooks column and I do not see it as an endorsement
    > for charter schools as Karen Garcia describes in the blog you reference.
    > More importantly, I do believe the Brooks column accurately describes the
    > ability (or lack of ability) of an unacceptable percentage of young adults
    > to adequately think about and discuss moral issues. I suspect, however, that
    > this ability has not changed much over time. That is what I am most curious
    > about: Has the ability to morally reason changed versus 10 or 20 or 30 years
    > ago? If it has changed I would wonder if the connectedness of our digital
    > world has enabled these young adults to interact with so many people that
    > they connect with none of them and if they are exposed to -- and perhaps
    > overwhelmed by -- so many viewpoints that they accept them all as equally
    > valid.
    >
    > Ron
    >
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Social Issues in Management Listserv [mailto:SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On
    > Behalf Of Julian Friedland
    > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 10:03 PM
    > To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [SIM] David Brooks: If it feels right (NY Times)
    >
    > I found this interesting myself Ron.
    >
    > Here is some critical backstory, though in fairness, the book and
    > column do not advocate individualism:
    >
    > http://kmgarcia2000.blogspot.com/2011/09/saving-adolescent-degenerates.html
    >
    >
    > Julian Friedland, Ph.D.
    > Fordham University
    > Graduate School of Business
    >
    > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Ron Roman
    > <ronroman@ethicalbusiness.org> wrote:
    >> Hello,
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Here is a link to an interesting article by David Brooks on the lack of
    >> ability of college-aged people to think and talk about moral issues. This
    >> aligns fairly well to my personal experience. I would be curious if
    > previous
    >> generations of students had better skills in this regard.
    >>
    >> If It Feels Right
    >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/if-it-feels-right.html?_r=1
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Ron
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Ronald M Roman, PhD
    >>
    >> San Jose State University
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> _______________________________________________________________________
    >>
    >> To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >>
    >> _______________________________________________________________________
    >>
    >> Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    >> _______________________________________________________________________
    >>
    >> If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery options,
    >> you can do so online at:
    >> http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    >> _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    > options, you can do so online at:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    >

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    _______________________________________________________________________

    If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    options, you can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1


  • 5.  David Brooks: If it feels right (NY Times)

    Posted 09-14-2011 14:14

    I too had the same question regarding moral reasoning today vs. 10, 20, or 30 years ago.  Thirty years ago, in my 20s, I would say that at a personal level, I had less ability to engage in moral reasoning just simply because I lacked a more worldly education. I was also looking for acceptance among my peers and I'm not one to rock the boat now, and wasn't back then either. 

    I've been through a lot of sensitivity training in the real-world and realized that at some point, I had to provide the evidence to support my stand (post-PhD).  In my 20s though, I think it was more about trying to fit and be acceptable than it is now.  As an example, one student got the chalk out of the union and wrote all over the sidewalks that the death penalty is wrong; it takes up three times more money to have a prisoner on death row, etc.  Nowhere was there any critical thinking to the thoughts on the walk.  I think it's important to teach students in each and every class to back up their answers.  I truly wanted to go in, get the chalk, and write..."that's nice but WHY?"  

     Linda

    On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 04:35:43 -0700, Ron Roman wrote:

    I may be missing it or perhaps I am simply naive, and I will grant you that
    I have not read the actual study or the upcoming book and that I do not know
    Professor Christian Smith or to whom the Lilly Foundation provides grants,
    but I just re-read the Brooks column and I do not see it as an endorsement
    for charter schools as Karen Garcia describes in the blog you reference.
    More importantly, I do believe the Brooks column accurately describes the
    ability (or lack of ability) of an unacceptable percentage of young adults
    to adequately think about and discuss moral issues. I suspect, however, that
    this ability has not changed much over time. That is what I am most curious
    about: Has the ability to morally reason changed versus 10 or 20 or 30 years
    ago? If it has changed I would wonder if the connectedness of our digital
    world has enabled these young adults to interact with so many people that
    they connect with none of them and if they are exposed to -- and perhaps
    overwhelmed by -- so many viewpoints that they accept them all as equally
    valid.

    Ron



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Social Issues in Management Listserv [mailto:SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On
    Behalf Of Julian Friedland
    Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 10:03 PM
    To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    Subject: Re: [SIM] David Brooks: If it feels right (NY Times)

    I found this interesting myself Ron.

    Here is some critical backstory, though in fairness, the book and
    column do not advocate individualism:

    http://kmgarcia2000.blogspot.com/2011/09/saving-adolescent-degenerates.html


    Julian Friedland, Ph.D.
    Fordham University
    Graduate School of Business

    On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Ron Roman
    <ronroman@ethicalbusiness.org> wrote:
    Hello, Here is a link to an interesting article by David Brooks on the lack of ability of college-aged people to think and talk about moral issues. This aligns fairly well to my personal experience. I would be curious if
    previous
    generations of students had better skills in this regard. If It Feels Right http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/if-it-feels-right.html?_r=1 Cheers, Ron Ronald M Roman, PhD San Jose State University _______________________________________________________________________ To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu _______________________________________________________________________ Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org _______________________________________________________________________ If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery options, you can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1 _______________________________________________________________________
    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    _______________________________________________________________________

    If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    options, you can do so online at:
    http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    _______________________________________________________________________

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    _______________________________________________________________________

    If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    options, you can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    _______________________________________________________________________

     

     
    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org _______________________________________________________________________

    If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery options, you can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1 _______________________________________________________________________



  • 6.  David Brooks: If it feels right (NY Times)

    Posted 09-14-2011 15:07
    Indeed. But at least the students were thinking and getting getting
    involved with important ethical issues.

    That seems to happen much less often in college students these days.
    Don't you think?

    Julian

    On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 2:14 PM, Linda C. Rodriguez <blondie@pobox.com> wrote:
    > I too had the same question regarding moral reasoning today vs. 10, 20, or
    > 30 years ago.  Thirty years ago, in my 20s, I would say that at a personal
    > level, I had less ability to engage in moral reasoning just simply because I
    > lacked a more worldly education. I was also looking for acceptance among my
    > peers and I'm not one to rock the boat now, and wasn't back then either.
    >
    > I've been through a lot of sensitivity training in the real-world and
    > realized that at some point, I had to provide the evidence to support my
    > stand (post-PhD).  In my 20s though, I think it was more about trying to fit
    > and be acceptable than it is now.  As an example, one student got the chalk
    > out of the union and wrote all over the sidewalks that the death penalty is
    > wrong; it takes up three times more money to have a prisoner on death row,
    > etc.  Nowhere was there any critical thinking to the thoughts on the walk.
    > I think it's important to teach students in each and every class to back up
    > their answers.  I truly wanted to go in, get the chalk, and write..."that's
    > nice but WHY?"
    >
    >  Linda
    >
    > On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 04:35:43 -0700, Ron Roman wrote:
    >
    > I may be missing it or perhaps I am simply naive, and I will grant you that
    > I have not read the actual study or the upcoming book and that I do not know
    > Professor Christian Smith or to whom the Lilly Foundation provides grants,
    > but I just re-read the Brooks column and I do not see it as an endorsement
    > for charter schools as Karen Garcia describes in the blog you reference.
    > More importantly, I do believe the Brooks column accurately describes the
    > ability (or lack of ability) of an unacceptable percentage of young adults
    > to adequately think about and discuss moral issues. I suspect, however, that
    > this ability has not changed much over time. That is what I am most curious
    > about: Has the ability to morally reason changed versus 10 or 20 or 30 years
    > ago? If it has changed I would wonder if the connectedness of our digital
    > world has enabled these young adults to interact with so many people that
    > they connect with none of them and if they are exposed to -- and perhaps
    > overwhelmed by -- so many viewpoints that they accept them all as equally
    > valid.
    >
    > Ron
    >
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Social Issues in Management Listserv [mailto:SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU] On
    > Behalf Of Julian Friedland
    > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 10:03 PM
    > To: SIM@AOMLISTS.PACE.EDU
    > Subject: Re: [SIM] David Brooks: If it feels right (NY Times)
    >
    > I found this interesting myself Ron.
    >
    > Here is some critical backstory, though in fairness, the book and
    > column do not advocate individualism:
    >
    > http://kmgarcia2000.blogspot.com/2011/09/saving-adolescent-degenerates.html
    >
    >
    > Julian Friedland, Ph.D.
    > Fordham University
    > Graduate School of Business
    >
    > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Ron Roman
    > <ronroman@ethicalbusiness.org> wrote:
    >
    > Hello, Here is a link to an interesting article by David Brooks on the lack
    > of ability of college-aged people to think and talk about moral issues. This
    > aligns fairly well to my personal experience. I would be curious if
    >
    > previous
    >
    > generations of students had better skills in this regard. If It Feels Right
    > http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/13/opinion/if-it-feels-right.html?_r=1
    > Cheers, Ron Ronald M Roman, PhD San Jose State University
    > _______________________________________________________________________ To
    > send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > _______________________________________________________________________ If
    > you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery options, you
    > can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    > options, you can do so online at:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    > options, you can do so online at:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu
    >
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    > _______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery options,
    > you can do so online at:
    > http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1
    > _______________________________________________________________________

    _______________________________________________________________________

    To send a message to the list, send your email to SIM@aomlists.pace.edu

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Visit the SIM Division website at: http://sim.aomonline.org
    _______________________________________________________________________

    If you wish to unsubscribe from this list or change your delivery
    options, you can do so online at: http://aomlists.pace.edu/scripts/wa.exe?SUBED1=sim&A=1