Discussion: View Thread

Best,

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Doug Creed <creedatgdo@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear GDO Listserv Subscribers:

 

While the nature and  number of recent postings has become irritating for some of you, please do not rush to unsubscribe.  This listserv is clearly a valuable resource that we hope everyone will benefit from.  The boarder the participation, the more valuable it is as resource.   

 

Nonethless,  it is clear that the recent volume of messages is frustrating some users, so we have approached AOM about setting up a separate topical forum to accommodate GDO's vibrant and important exchanges on the implications of the Trump travel ban and AOM's policy on taking positions.  Apparently, it has not been the practice to create topical forums that are independent of a division listserv, so there is as of yet no seamless way to do it, but they heard us and they are working on a solution.  

 

So I ask for your patience until we have a solution.   

 

Now for a word of thanks -- I may simply be stating what we all already know, a.k.a. preaching to the choir, here.  (It wouldn't be the first time and I suppose it won't be the last).  But this kind of conversation is so important and I am grateful to everyone for  their respectful engagement.  Conversation is particularly salient to me right now as I see how positively students are responding to two new books in my Business in Society class that each, in their own way, emphasize the need for conversation across differences if we are to traverse what Arlie Hochschild (2016),  in one of the books, Strangers in their Own Land,  calls the "empathy wall" that defines the partisan divide in the US.  The other book is J.D. Vance's Hillbilly Elegy.  If these students leave with a greater appreciation for and commitment to conversing and reasoning across differences, I will feel pretty good.   I really recomment the books.

 

Best wishes,

Doug Creed

GDO Division Chair

Dear Apoorva 

I am wondering whether there is some taking at cross purposes going on here.

For me, as equality and diversity scholars, our professional values naturally would include values of respect for human rights. So, I don't see how such an easy separation between 'the professional' sphere and values can be made. Indeed, as a feminist and anti-racist scholar, I think the desire to make such a separation in itself is not value-free.

And also, I would have hoped that respect for human rights is not just any 'value' but a principle that is universally recognised - including before the law.

All the best

Ahu

On 10 Feb 2017, at 14:23, Apoorva Ghosh <apoorva.ghosh@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

Laura

I believe GDO is a professional Listserv that intends to assist its members in their professional growth.  There are lots of Facebook and Twitter forums where values and opinions on human rights can be shared.

Best,

Apoorva Ghosh

On Feb 10, 2017 1:22 AM, "Traavik, Laura E. Mercer" <laura.e.m.traavik@bi.no> wrote:

Dear Apoorva,

 

You asked for evidence based discussions but this comes second, not first. Before evidence comes values. Many of the discussions I have read in our forum are rooted in fundamental human rights and values- these are rights and values, not empirical findings. 

 

The effects of actions can be measured and weighed, however moral values are not based on evidence - this we have to decide on. Who do we want to be as scholars? How do we treat and see people? To divorce values from research is dangerous.  

 

GDO and AOM need to be built on fundamental human rights and values that do NOT include discrimination.  This has nothing to do with being anti-establishment this is about pro-human rights.

 

Let's lead the world to where all peoples' human rights are respected, and participation and inclusion is the norm not the exception.  To do this we must be vocal when there are human rights violations.  The spotlight on the USA is due to the 2017 meeting location, and the national origin of the AOM organization.

 

So I thank our members for caring,  and hope we stay active on this issue and others without being put into boxes of pro or anti-establishment and instead be put in the box pro-human.

 

Best regards

Laura

 

 

<image001.png>

 

Laura E. M. Traavik
Associate professor
Department of Leadership and Organizational Behaviour
Office address: Nydalsveien 37, 0484 Oslo
Postal address: NO-0442 Oslo
Mobile: +47 464 10760 – Switchboard: +47 46410000
Internet: bi.edu – facebook.com/BIBusinessSchooI – https://twitter.com/BI_BizSchool

<image002.jpg>

 

From: Gender & Diversity in Organizations Division Listserv [mailto:GDO-L@AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG] On Behalf Of Apoorva Ghosh
Sent: 9. februar 2017 22:04
To: GDO-L@AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG
Subject: Re: Please do not unsubscribe yet!

 

Thank you, Doug.  I prefer to see an evidence-based discussion on this important topic-- Can we hear from the people who anticipate to be affected by the policies.  What specific issues are they facing toward participating in the Academy? Can we contact them and get to hear their perspectives? As a group, how can we compensate for their absence, if that happens due to Executive orders?  How can we ensure more participation and roles from the peripheral countries, in general? These are some of the questions that garner my interest on this important topic.  I hope the special topic forum does not become a repeat of "anti-establishment"  sentiments that I am regularly seeing in majority of the media outlets.

Best,

Apoorva Ghosh

 

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Doug Creed <creedatgdo@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear GDO Listserv Subscribers:

 

While the nature and  number of recent postings has become irritating for some of you, please do not rush to unsubscribe.  This listserv is clearly a valuable resource that we hope everyone will benefit from.  The boarder the participation, the more valuable it is as resource.   

 

Nonethless,  it is clear that the recent volume of messages is frustrating some users, so we have approached AOM about setting up a separate topical forum to accommodate GDO's vibrant and important exchanges on the implications of the Trump travel ban and AOM's policy on taking positions.  Apparently, it has not been the practice to create topical forums that are independent of a division listserv, so there is as of yet no seamless way to do it, but they heard us and they are working on a solution.  

 

So I ask for your patience until we have a solution.   

 

Now for a word of thanks -- I may simply be stating what we all already know, a.k.a. preaching to the choir, here.  (It wouldn't be the first time and I suppose it won't be the last).  But this kind of conversation is so important and I am grateful to everyone for  their respectful engagement.  Conversation is particularly salient to me right now as I see how positively students are responding to two new books in my Business in Society class that each, in their own way, emphasize the need for conversation across differences if we are to traverse what Arlie Hochschild (2016),  in one of the books, Strangers in their Own Land,  calls the "empathy wall" that defines the partisan divide in the US.  The other book is J.D. Vance's Hillbilly Elegy.  If these students leave with a greater appreciation for and commitment to conversing and reasoning across differences, I will feel pretty good.   I really recomment the books.

 

Best wishes,

Doug Creed

GDO Division Chair

 

The problem is indeed very big unfortunately 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 10, 2017, at 6:11 PM, Ahu Tatli <a.tatli@QMUL.AC.UK> wrote:

EXTERNAL: This is an external email received from the Internet. Report this message to spam@aramco.com if the email contains any suspicious content.

---

But what we are discussing is also about professional opportunities (e.g.  new barriers some of our present and future colleagues will experience because of their nationality) isn't it? This surely is a professional matter beyond what we may believe in.

I really don't understand what the problem is.

Ahu

On 10 Feb 2017, at 14:47, Apoorva Ghosh <apoorva.ghosh@gmail.com> wrote:

Ahu

I'm a strong supporter of human rights and equality.  I will be happy to engage in a talk about the lack of equality of the members from peripheral countries that I have been witnessing in GDO for years. I have hardly seen any scholar from a global south institution occupying leadership in GDO.   Although, I believe those talks call for different avenues and not a professional Listserv that people subscribe to largely for knowing about professional opportunities .

Best,

Apoorva Ghosh

On Feb 10, 2017 6:38 AM, "Ahu Tatli" <a.tatli@qmul.ac.uk> wrote:

Dear Apoorva 

I am wondering whether there is some taking at cross purposes going on here.

For me, as equality and diversity scholars, our professional values naturally would include values of respect for human rights. So, I don't see how such an easy separation between 'the professional' sphere and values can be made. Indeed, as a feminist and anti-racist scholar, I think the desire to make such a separation in itself is not value-free.

And also, I would have hoped that respect for human rights is not just any 'value' but a principle that is universally recognised - including before the law.

All the best

Ahu

On 10 Feb 2017, at 14:23, Apoorva Ghosh <apoorva.ghosh@GMAIL.COM> wrote:

Laura

I believe GDO is a professional Listserv that intends to assist its members in their professional growth.  There are lots of Facebook and Twitter forums where values and opinions on human rights can be shared.

Best,

Apoorva Ghosh

On Feb 10, 2017 1:22 AM, "Traavik, Laura E. Mercer" <laura.e.m.traavik@bi.no> wrote:

Dear Apoorva,

 

You asked for evidence based discussions but this comes second, not first. Before evidence comes values. Many of the discussions I have read in our forum are rooted in fundamental human rights and values- these are rights and values, not empirical findings. 

 

The effects of actions can be measured and weighed, however moral values are not based on evidence - this we have to decide on. Who do we want to be as scholars? How do we treat and see people? To divorce values from research is dangerous.  

 

GDO and AOM need to be built on fundamental human rights and values that do NOT include discrimination.  This has nothing to do with being anti-establishment this is about pro-human rights.

 

Let's lead the world to where all peoples' human rights are respected, and participation and inclusion is the norm not the exception.  To do this we must be vocal when there are human rights violations.  The spotlight on the USA is due to the 2017 meeting location, and the national origin of the AOM organization.

 

So I thank our members for caring,  and hope we stay active on this issue and others without being put into boxes of pro or anti-establishment and instead be put in the box pro-human.

 

Best regards

Laura

 

 

<image001.png>

 

Laura E. M. Traavik
Associate professor
Department of Leadership and Organizational Behaviour
Office address: Nydalsveien 37, 0484 Oslo
Postal address: NO-0442 Oslo
Mobile: +47 464 10760 – Switchboard: +47 46410000
Internet: bi.edu – facebook.com/BIBusinessSchooI – https://twitter.com/BI_BizSchool

<image002.jpg>

 

From: Gender & Diversity in Organizations Division Listserv [mailto:GDO-L@AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG] On Behalf Of Apoorva Ghosh
Sent: 9. februar 2017 22:04
To: GDO-L@AOMLISTS.AOM.ORG
Subject: Re: Please do not unsubscribe yet!

 

Thank you, Doug.  I prefer to see an evidence-based discussion on this important topic-- Can we hear from the people who anticipate to be affected by the policies.  What specific issues are they facing toward participating in the Academy? Can we contact them and get to hear their perspectives? As a group, how can we compensate for their absence, if that happens due to Executive orders?  How can we ensure more participation and roles from the peripheral countries, in general? These are some of the questions that garner my interest on this important topic.  I hope the special topic forum does not become a repeat of "anti-establishment"  sentiments that I am regularly seeing in majority of the media outlets.

Best,

Apoorva Ghosh

 

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 11:13 AM, Doug Creed <creedatgdo@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear GDO Listserv Subscribers:

 

While the nature and  number of recent postings has become irritating for some of you, please do not rush to unsubscribe.  This listserv is clearly a valuable resource that we hope everyone will benefit from.  The boarder the participation, the more valuable it is as resource.   

 

Nonethless,  it is clear that the recent volume of messages is frustrating some users, so we have approached AOM about setting up a separate topical forum to accommodate GDO's vibrant and important exchanges on the implications of the Trump travel ban and AOM's policy on taking positions.  Apparently, it has not been the practice to create topical forums that are independent of a division listserv, so there is as of yet no seamless way to do it, but they heard us and they are working on a solution.  

 

So I ask for your patience until we have a solution.   

 

Now for a word of thanks -- I may simply be stating what we all already know, a.k.a. preaching to the choir, here.  (It wouldn't be the first time and I suppose it won't be the last).  But this kind of conversation is so important and I am grateful to everyone for  their respectful engagement.  Conversation is particularly salient to me right now as I see how positively students are responding to two new books in my Business in Society class that each, in their own way, emphasize the need for conversation across differences if we are to traverse what Arlie Hochschild (2016),  in one of the books, Strangers in their Own Land,  calls the "empathy wall" that defines the partisan divide in the US.  The other book is J.D. Vance's Hillbilly Elegy.  If these students leave with a greater appreciation for and commitment to conversing and reasoning across differences, I will feel pretty good.   I really recomment the books.

 

Best wishes,

Doug Creed

GDO Division Chair

 

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I like many on this thread, find this topic to be important and compelling, but I am also finding the amount of email that I am receiving to be a bit cumbersome at the moment.  In the interest of trying to offer a solution rather than a complaint, I have created a discussion group on LinkedIn where we could further explore this topic as well as other issues.  I would invite anyone who would like to continue this discussion off of the listserve to join the discussion group at: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/12030945 .

The group is hidden, meaning that only people with the link can join and the group is not searchable.  I will log in daily to approve new discussion group members.  Please be advised that this discussion group is not sanctioned by the AoM so this is an informal group that I will work to maintain until the AoM provides a sanctioned alternative for these types of discussions.  Obviously the use of this group is just a suggestion. I am offering this solution in hopes of meeting the needs of both those who wish to continue this discussion as well as those who wish to reduce the number of emails they are receiving.  I would suggest that as new topics emerge in the discussion group, a single email could be sent to the listserve with no more than one email per week being sent.  I hope you will join me in supporting this alternative solution to continuing our discussion.